I posted a deliberately inflammatory post to the slam list a day or so ago, implying that the lack of chatter there was a sign of decay and dissension in the national slam community.
chazellik, lowhumcrush, and Bucky Sinister chimed in with points of view on the subject, including the belief that LiveJournal has taken the list serv’s place to some extent (I thoroughly agree). Charles also provided some thoughtful commentary about the importance of the old rough and tumble days of flames and arguments to forging the national community — and I agree with that too.
Interestingly enough, I received a couple of backchannel comments from the infamous bowerbird, who (no surprise) never really left the list he was banned from. This isn’t the first time he’s hit me up like that about comments on the list, so I expected that.
It struck me (as it did back then) that the banning of bowerbird was a mistake, as it took away a lot of the energy flashpoints from the list. Say what you want about him and his frequently unworkable ideas – he provided the catalyst for alot of discussions.
Now, all we get there is announcements and the occasional flurry of indignation.
The slam family is dead. Long live the slam.
Dark Matter 
June 17th, 2004 at 8:16 am
Re: and yet….
There are actually a couple of attempts to do this — one by the aforementioned bowerbird (Poets’ Underground Railroad).
I’d have no objection myself — not sure how others would feel.
June 17th, 2004 at 8:16 am
Re: and yet….
There are actually a couple of attempts to do this — one by the aforementioned bowerbird (Poets’ Underground Railroad).
I’d have no objection myself — not sure how others would feel.
June 17th, 2004 at 8:16 am
Re: and yet….
There are actually a couple of attempts to do this — one by the aforementioned bowerbird (Poets’ Underground Railroad).
I’d have no objection myself — not sure how others would feel.
June 17th, 2004 at 8:16 am
Re: and yet….
There are actually a couple of attempts to do this — one by the aforementioned bowerbird (Poets’ Underground Railroad).
I’d have no objection myself — not sure how others would feel.
June 16th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
and yet….
The nice things abbout message groups is that they provide a central clearing house where everyone can come to. And so to find _everyone_ you just have to find one person (the group ID).
Not so with LJ. Here, the problem is the distributed network. For instance, I just saw in ABQ, but never would know how to contact him or that he had an LJ, unless i had talked with him during the slam. Which I didn’t. So if you hadn’t linked him here, I never would be able to find him. Same goes with . I think we would be well-served to have some sort of slam/LJ map that allowed us to find people, or at least find people who know people.
What do you think about that? Would you be willing to have your name and LJ name attached to some sort of map? I’m just thinking off the top of my head, but we would need people who would be willing to have their information “out there”, which in my experience have been hard to find. But it would be worth it, I think, if someone was travelling to a certain town and wanted to find poets to meet there or stay with. What do you think?
June 16th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
and yet….
The nice things abbout message groups is that they provide a central clearing house where everyone can come to. And so to find _everyone_ you just have to find one person (the group ID).
Not so with LJ. Here, the problem is the distributed network. For instance, I just saw in ABQ, but never would know how to contact him or that he had an LJ, unless i had talked with him during the slam. Which I didn’t. So if you hadn’t linked him here, I never would be able to find him. Same goes with . I think we would be well-served to have some sort of slam/LJ map that allowed us to find people, or at least find people who know people.
What do you think about that? Would you be willing to have your name and LJ name attached to some sort of map? I’m just thinking off the top of my head, but we would need people who would be willing to have their information “out there”, which in my experience have been hard to find. But it would be worth it, I think, if someone was travelling to a certain town and wanted to find poets to meet there or stay with. What do you think?
June 16th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
and yet….
The nice things abbout message groups is that they provide a central clearing house where everyone can come to. And so to find _everyone_ you just have to find one person (the group ID).
Not so with LJ. Here, the problem is the distributed network. For instance, I just saw in ABQ, but never would know how to contact him or that he had an LJ, unless i had talked with him during the slam. Which I didn’t. So if you hadn’t linked him here, I never would be able to find him. Same goes with . I think we would be well-served to have some sort of slam/LJ map that allowed us to find people, or at least find people who know people.
What do you think about that? Would you be willing to have your name and LJ name attached to some sort of map? I’m just thinking off the top of my head, but we would need people who would be willing to have their information “out there”, which in my experience have been hard to find. But it would be worth it, I think, if someone was travelling to a certain town and wanted to find poets to meet there or stay with. What do you think?
June 16th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
and yet….
The nice things abbout message groups is that they provide a central clearing house where everyone can come to. And so to find _everyone_ you just have to find one person (the group ID).
Not so with LJ. Here, the problem is the distributed network. For instance, I just saw in ABQ, but never would know how to contact him or that he had an LJ, unless i had talked with him during the slam. Which I didn’t. So if you hadn’t linked him here, I never would be able to find him. Same goes with . I think we would be well-served to have some sort of slam/LJ map that allowed us to find people, or at least find people who know people.
What do you think about that? Would you be willing to have your name and LJ name attached to some sort of map? I’m just thinking off the top of my head, but we would need people who would be willing to have their information “out there”, which in my experience have been hard to find. But it would be worth it, I think, if someone was travelling to a certain town and wanted to find poets to meet there or stay with. What do you think?
June 16th, 2004 at 2:02 pm
Re: family?
> as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself.
yahoo groups has its own inherent problems. We expeienced one of them in trying to set up a group for just our team this year in that have to have a yahoo ID to join.
personally, as with the pattern of google stomping all over yahoo in the search and now the mail dept., I think it is only a matter of time before google introduces an open method of creating groups, wherein anyone with an email address can join.
June 16th, 2004 at 2:02 pm
Re: family?
> as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself.
yahoo groups has its own inherent problems. We expeienced one of them in trying to set up a group for just our team this year in that have to have a yahoo ID to join.
personally, as with the pattern of google stomping all over yahoo in the search and now the mail dept., I think it is only a matter of time before google introduces an open method of creating groups, wherein anyone with an email address can join.
June 16th, 2004 at 2:02 pm
Re: family?
> as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself.
yahoo groups has its own inherent problems. We expeienced one of them in trying to set up a group for just our team this year in that have to have a yahoo ID to join.
personally, as with the pattern of google stomping all over yahoo in the search and now the mail dept., I think it is only a matter of time before google introduces an open method of creating groups, wherein anyone with an email address can join.
June 16th, 2004 at 2:02 pm
Re: family?
> as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself.
yahoo groups has its own inherent problems. We expeienced one of them in trying to set up a group for just our team this year in that have to have a yahoo ID to join.
personally, as with the pattern of google stomping all over yahoo in the search and now the mail dept., I think it is only a matter of time before google introduces an open method of creating groups, wherein anyone with an email address can join.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:26 pm
Re: fambly?
i’d have to agree with the network aspect of the community. it gave mr wakefield a place to play. same with so many others.
it sounds like there are also a number of smaller regional list serves taking its place too. mr. sinister mentioned something of a nor cal message board.
as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself. i few times my account just went inactive. i stopped getting e mails and then never bothered to sign up till much later. i am back on it now.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:26 pm
Re: fambly?
i’d have to agree with the network aspect of the community. it gave mr wakefield a place to play. same with so many others.
it sounds like there are also a number of smaller regional list serves taking its place too. mr. sinister mentioned something of a nor cal message board.
as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself. i few times my account just went inactive. i stopped getting e mails and then never bothered to sign up till much later. i am back on it now.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:26 pm
Re: fambly?
i’d have to agree with the network aspect of the community. it gave mr wakefield a place to play. same with so many others.
it sounds like there are also a number of smaller regional list serves taking its place too. mr. sinister mentioned something of a nor cal message board.
as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself. i few times my account just went inactive. i stopped getting e mails and then never bothered to sign up till much later. i am back on it now.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:26 pm
Re: fambly?
i’d have to agree with the network aspect of the community. it gave mr wakefield a place to play. same with so many others.
it sounds like there are also a number of smaller regional list serves taking its place too. mr. sinister mentioned something of a nor cal message board.
as for the list serve part of the problem might be yahoo itself. i few times my account just went inactive. i stopped getting e mails and then never bothered to sign up till much later. i am back on it now.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:20 pm
Re: fambly?
I think that’s true, rc.
Still, our ability to connect and network beyond that won’t be enhanced without strong communication networks that link them. That’s what I’d like to see.
I said this awhile back in the column: I think the lasting legacy of slam is not the poetry it’s created, but the network of slam communities that have sprung up in service to that. The list helped make that happen.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:20 pm
Re: fambly?
I think that’s true, rc.
Still, our ability to connect and network beyond that won’t be enhanced without strong communication networks that link them. That’s what I’d like to see.
I said this awhile back in the column: I think the lasting legacy of slam is not the poetry it’s created, but the network of slam communities that have sprung up in service to that. The list helped make that happen.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:20 pm
Re: fambly?
I think that’s true, rc.
Still, our ability to connect and network beyond that won’t be enhanced without strong communication networks that link them. That’s what I’d like to see.
I said this awhile back in the column: I think the lasting legacy of slam is not the poetry it’s created, but the network of slam communities that have sprung up in service to that. The list helped make that happen.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:20 pm
Re: fambly?
I think that’s true, rc.
Still, our ability to connect and network beyond that won’t be enhanced without strong communication networks that link them. That’s what I’d like to see.
I said this awhile back in the column: I think the lasting legacy of slam is not the poetry it’s created, but the network of slam communities that have sprung up in service to that. The list helped make that happen.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:12 pm
fambly?
tony
i wonder to what extent there ever was such a “family”. or whether or not such a notion was romanticized out of proportion and continues to be by some to this day.
i find now that the smaller events that i’ve been to or heard about seem to have a stronger, brighter camaraderie than nps does. sure there are pockets and moments at nps but overall its too much of a gorilla at the zoo.
maybe the “family” has divided and moved out of the house and is now setting up apartments at wordfest, the iwps, the recent southwest shootout festival, southern fried and such. from what i’ve experienced and heard these events are emphasizing the poetry and community and over the competition and following through on the words.
who knows?
June 16th, 2004 at 12:12 pm
fambly?
tony
i wonder to what extent there ever was such a “family”. or whether or not such a notion was romanticized out of proportion and continues to be by some to this day.
i find now that the smaller events that i’ve been to or heard about seem to have a stronger, brighter camaraderie than nps does. sure there are pockets and moments at nps but overall its too much of a gorilla at the zoo.
maybe the “family” has divided and moved out of the house and is now setting up apartments at wordfest, the iwps, the recent southwest shootout festival, southern fried and such. from what i’ve experienced and heard these events are emphasizing the poetry and community and over the competition and following through on the words.
who knows?
June 16th, 2004 at 12:12 pm
fambly?
tony
i wonder to what extent there ever was such a “family”. or whether or not such a notion was romanticized out of proportion and continues to be by some to this day.
i find now that the smaller events that i’ve been to or heard about seem to have a stronger, brighter camaraderie than nps does. sure there are pockets and moments at nps but overall its too much of a gorilla at the zoo.
maybe the “family” has divided and moved out of the house and is now setting up apartments at wordfest, the iwps, the recent southwest shootout festival, southern fried and such. from what i’ve experienced and heard these events are emphasizing the poetry and community and over the competition and following through on the words.
who knows?
June 16th, 2004 at 12:12 pm
fambly?
tony
i wonder to what extent there ever was such a “family”. or whether or not such a notion was romanticized out of proportion and continues to be by some to this day.
i find now that the smaller events that i’ve been to or heard about seem to have a stronger, brighter camaraderie than nps does. sure there are pockets and moments at nps but overall its too much of a gorilla at the zoo.
maybe the “family” has divided and moved out of the house and is now setting up apartments at wordfest, the iwps, the recent southwest shootout festival, southern fried and such. from what i’ve experienced and heard these events are emphasizing the poetry and community and over the competition and following through on the words.
who knows?
June 16th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
i just went ahead and joined so i could check it out. amusingly enough, the security word i had to type in was “flame”, heh.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
i just went ahead and joined so i could check it out. amusingly enough, the security word i had to type in was “flame”, heh.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
i just went ahead and joined so i could check it out. amusingly enough, the security word i had to type in was “flame”, heh.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
i just went ahead and joined so i could check it out. amusingly enough, the security word i had to type in was “flame”, heh.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:06 pm
I don’t disagree with you, Phil. I’m just saying that it’s a sad thing — it was at least a place where you had a reasonable shot at being in touch with pretty much anybody on any topic related to slam, and you could engage with pretty much everyone who was anyone in slam.
I prefer LJ too; I just see the list’s degeneration as another symptom of the decline of slam as a coherent entity — if it ever was coherent in the first place.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:06 pm
I don’t disagree with you, Phil. I’m just saying that it’s a sad thing — it was at least a place where you had a reasonable shot at being in touch with pretty much anybody on any topic related to slam, and you could engage with pretty much everyone who was anyone in slam.
I prefer LJ too; I just see the list’s degeneration as another symptom of the decline of slam as a coherent entity — if it ever was coherent in the first place.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:06 pm
I don’t disagree with you, Phil. I’m just saying that it’s a sad thing — it was at least a place where you had a reasonable shot at being in touch with pretty much anybody on any topic related to slam, and you could engage with pretty much everyone who was anyone in slam.
I prefer LJ too; I just see the list’s degeneration as another symptom of the decline of slam as a coherent entity — if it ever was coherent in the first place.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:06 pm
I don’t disagree with you, Phil. I’m just saying that it’s a sad thing — it was at least a place where you had a reasonable shot at being in touch with pretty much anybody on any topic related to slam, and you could engage with pretty much everyone who was anyone in slam.
I prefer LJ too; I just see the list’s degeneration as another symptom of the decline of slam as a coherent entity — if it ever was coherent in the first place.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:01 pm
For me, I hardly ever go on the slam list anymore because the signal-to-noise ratio is for shit, and there are too many people on it to be a functioning community.
What’s refreshing about LJ is I can read the people I actually like, and I can hear about far more than just slam — although it’s actually a good source of slam news.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:01 pm
For me, I hardly ever go on the slam list anymore because the signal-to-noise ratio is for shit, and there are too many people on it to be a functioning community.
What’s refreshing about LJ is I can read the people I actually like, and I can hear about far more than just slam — although it’s actually a good source of slam news.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:01 pm
For me, I hardly ever go on the slam list anymore because the signal-to-noise ratio is for shit, and there are too many people on it to be a functioning community.
What’s refreshing about LJ is I can read the people I actually like, and I can hear about far more than just slam — although it’s actually a good source of slam news.
June 16th, 2004 at 12:01 pm
For me, I hardly ever go on the slam list anymore because the signal-to-noise ratio is for shit, and there are too many people on it to be a functioning community.
What’s refreshing about LJ is I can read the people I actually like, and I can hear about far more than just slam — although it’s actually a good source of slam news.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:50 am
That’s exactly my point, David — it used to be that you’d make a team, or you’d get involved, and someone would say to you, “You know, you really ought to join the slamlist…” and you’d be off. Almost a rite of passage, I think; huge debates on all sorts of stuff, rampant silliness, etc. The big thing was, you can’t post poems, so it stayed strictly, um, business. (I use the term with tongue firmly in cheek.)
It used to be run by a company called Datawranglers, but then moved to Yahoogroups when that list failed.
Sign up, if you like, at: poetry_slam on the yahoogroups.com site. It’s an open list.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:50 am
That’s exactly my point, David — it used to be that you’d make a team, or you’d get involved, and someone would say to you, “You know, you really ought to join the slamlist…” and you’d be off. Almost a rite of passage, I think; huge debates on all sorts of stuff, rampant silliness, etc. The big thing was, you can’t post poems, so it stayed strictly, um, business. (I use the term with tongue firmly in cheek.)
It used to be run by a company called Datawranglers, but then moved to Yahoogroups when that list failed.
Sign up, if you like, at: poetry_slam on the yahoogroups.com site. It’s an open list.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:50 am
That’s exactly my point, David — it used to be that you’d make a team, or you’d get involved, and someone would say to you, “You know, you really ought to join the slamlist…” and you’d be off. Almost a rite of passage, I think; huge debates on all sorts of stuff, rampant silliness, etc. The big thing was, you can’t post poems, so it stayed strictly, um, business. (I use the term with tongue firmly in cheek.)
It used to be run by a company called Datawranglers, but then moved to Yahoogroups when that list failed.
Sign up, if you like, at: poetry_slam on the yahoogroups.com site. It’s an open list.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:50 am
That’s exactly my point, David — it used to be that you’d make a team, or you’d get involved, and someone would say to you, “You know, you really ought to join the slamlist…” and you’d be off. Almost a rite of passage, I think; huge debates on all sorts of stuff, rampant silliness, etc. The big thing was, you can’t post poems, so it stayed strictly, um, business. (I use the term with tongue firmly in cheek.)
It used to be run by a company called Datawranglers, but then moved to Yahoogroups when that list failed.
Sign up, if you like, at: poetry_slam on the yahoogroups.com site. It’s an open list.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:38 am
no one ever told me
I never knew that there were slam email lists, but I knew about livejournal. The whole idea of the greater slam family, and all its members, is still really new to me. I hardly know anyone, really. But I do know a few people on LJ, and when they bring up an issue, I feel like I can talk about it, because it’s a personal issue. It’s soemthing that we will work out and such. And by having conversations over time, I begin to meet people. Which is how I met you, Tonyt.
Which is say, in sum, that LJ is more open than the email lists. Heck, still no one has ever told me about them. So there you go.
But the tradeoff is that in order to take part in the dicussions, one needs to know who is out there talking and bringing up the issues. Because I am interested in them, in learning about the struggles and and tangles of this art form I love. I mean, I hardly know anyone.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:38 am
no one ever told me
I never knew that there were slam email lists, but I knew about livejournal. The whole idea of the greater slam family, and all its members, is still really new to me. I hardly know anyone, really. But I do know a few people on LJ, and when they bring up an issue, I feel like I can talk about it, because it’s a personal issue. It’s soemthing that we will work out and such. And by having conversations over time, I begin to meet people. Which is how I met you, Tonyt.
Which is say, in sum, that LJ is more open than the email lists. Heck, still no one has ever told me about them. So there you go.
But the tradeoff is that in order to take part in the dicussions, one needs to know who is out there talking and bringing up the issues. Because I am interested in them, in learning about the struggles and and tangles of this art form I love. I mean, I hardly know anyone.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:38 am
no one ever told me
I never knew that there were slam email lists, but I knew about livejournal. The whole idea of the greater slam family, and all its members, is still really new to me. I hardly know anyone, really. But I do know a few people on LJ, and when they bring up an issue, I feel like I can talk about it, because it’s a personal issue. It’s soemthing that we will work out and such. And by having conversations over time, I begin to meet people. Which is how I met you, Tonyt.
Which is say, in sum, that LJ is more open than the email lists. Heck, still no one has ever told me about them. So there you go.
But the tradeoff is that in order to take part in the dicussions, one needs to know who is out there talking and bringing up the issues. Because I am interested in them, in learning about the struggles and and tangles of this art form I love. I mean, I hardly know anyone.
June 16th, 2004 at 11:38 am
no one ever told me
I never knew that there were slam email lists, but I knew about livejournal. The whole idea of the greater slam family, and all its members, is still really new to me. I hardly know anyone, really. But I do know a few people on LJ, and when they bring up an issue, I feel like I can talk about it, because it’s a personal issue. It’s soemthing that we will work out and such. And by having conversations over time, I begin to meet people. Which is how I met you, Tonyt.
Which is say, in sum, that LJ is more open than the email lists. Heck, still no one has ever told me about them. So there you go.
But the tradeoff is that in order to take part in the dicussions, one needs to know who is out there talking and bringing up the issues. Because I am interested in them, in learning about the struggles and and tangles of this art form I love. I mean, I hardly know anyone.