I’ll get blunt this time:
I perceive that there’s a qualitative difference between the way the deaths of brown people are treated and the way the deaths of not so brown people are treated — both in the media and in the larger public consciousness.
I think this may contribute to a difference in perception between brown skinned and not so brown skinned Americans about this war.
I think the long history of government involvement in/winking at the harrassment/deaths of brown activists and community leaders is part of the reason that some folks are so quick to see possible government involvement in the Berg killing — the timing being so suspiscious and all in its ability to pull critical spotlight off the Abu Ghraib situation.
Of course, I could be fulla shit. What do you think?
And please — a little more logic and less drama, folks?
Dark Matter 
May 14th, 2004 at 11:10 am
Interesting
I have had the opposite problem – I have been repeatedly told that I “don’t look Jewish” (which is of course silly, since Jews come in all colors and nationalities), and since my mother is the one who is Jewish, I always wanted to look more like her – which I don’t. I look completely opposite from her in every way. Growing up in Texas, where being Jewish is difficult enough, with Christian relatives on my father’s side who just pretended we weren’t Jewish, formulating an sense of identity took a lot of time and energy.
May 14th, 2004 at 11:10 am
Interesting
I have had the opposite problem – I have been repeatedly told that I “don’t look Jewish” (which is of course silly, since Jews come in all colors and nationalities), and since my mother is the one who is Jewish, I always wanted to look more like her – which I don’t. I look completely opposite from her in every way. Growing up in Texas, where being Jewish is difficult enough, with Christian relatives on my father’s side who just pretended we weren’t Jewish, formulating an sense of identity took a lot of time and energy.
May 14th, 2004 at 11:10 am
Interesting
I have had the opposite problem – I have been repeatedly told that I “don’t look Jewish” (which is of course silly, since Jews come in all colors and nationalities), and since my mother is the one who is Jewish, I always wanted to look more like her – which I don’t. I look completely opposite from her in every way. Growing up in Texas, where being Jewish is difficult enough, with Christian relatives on my father’s side who just pretended we weren’t Jewish, formulating an sense of identity took a lot of time and energy.
May 14th, 2004 at 11:05 am
Re: question
Here’s another:
http://www.bet.com/articles/0,1048,c1gb7802-8643,00.html
May 14th, 2004 at 11:05 am
Re: question
Here’s another:
http://www.bet.com/articles/0,1048,c1gb7802-8643,00.html
May 14th, 2004 at 11:05 am
Re: question
Here’s another:
http://www.bet.com/articles/0,1048,c1gb7802-8643,00.html
May 14th, 2004 at 10:53 am
Re: question
Interesting light on this discussion:
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/deaths
May 14th, 2004 at 10:53 am
Re: question
Interesting light on this discussion:
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/deaths
May 14th, 2004 at 10:53 am
Re: question
Interesting light on this discussion:
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/deaths
May 14th, 2004 at 10:41 am
Re: YES!!!!
I find the poem so resonant with my own experience.
I don’t “look” biracial, but there have been circumstances over the years when some one has mistaken my ethnicity for Samoan, Hawaiian, Spanish, Jewish, Arabic…
May 14th, 2004 at 10:41 am
Re: YES!!!!
I find the poem so resonant with my own experience.
I don’t “look” biracial, but there have been circumstances over the years when some one has mistaken my ethnicity for Samoan, Hawaiian, Spanish, Jewish, Arabic…
May 14th, 2004 at 10:41 am
Re: YES!!!!
I find the poem so resonant with my own experience.
I don’t “look” biracial, but there have been circumstances over the years when some one has mistaken my ethnicity for Samoan, Hawaiian, Spanish, Jewish, Arabic…
May 14th, 2004 at 10:24 am
Re: YES!!!!
I’ve shared the poem with several teenagers who are struggling with being perceived differently from how they identify…it’s such a great poem. Glad to hear you are sharing it, and that it’s been anthologized.
May 14th, 2004 at 10:24 am
Re: YES!!!!
I’ve shared the poem with several teenagers who are struggling with being perceived differently from how they identify…it’s such a great poem. Glad to hear you are sharing it, and that it’s been anthologized.
May 14th, 2004 at 10:24 am
Re: YES!!!!
I’ve shared the poem with several teenagers who are struggling with being perceived differently from how they identify…it’s such a great poem. Glad to hear you are sharing it, and that it’s been anthologized.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:20 am
Re: question
But Jonathan, I am basing it on facts.
I have PERSONALLY been on the receiving end of government crap based on my political activities with the American Indian Movement and various other groups, from surveillance to break-ins to intimidations and mail-opening (the last when I was with Amnesty International, of all things). And any even cursory review of the history of US government interaction with minority groups will reveal assault, murder, etc., from Fred Hampton to MLK, Anna Mae Aquash to Leonard Peltier, and many others.
COINTELPRO didn’t die with the 60s, you know. It just found ways to hide itself behind quasi-governemental organizations. Ask anyone involved with the Artists’ Network of Refuse and Resist, for instance, about the “unofficial” police websites that track their appearances from town to town.
Lots of people of color distrust this government. Conspiracy theories about CIA crack distribution and AIDS being a governemnt plot don’t even seem farfetched to folks who know that the government gave the Mafia free rein on the heroin trade in return for keeping the dockworker unions anti-Communist, or who lived through the Tuskegee experiments.
It’s hard to see this, I think, for some folks; but it’s not easy to trust the government when it seems that “being American” has meant something different to you than it does to them.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:20 am
Re: question
But Jonathan, I am basing it on facts.
I have PERSONALLY been on the receiving end of government crap based on my political activities with the American Indian Movement and various other groups, from surveillance to break-ins to intimidations and mail-opening (the last when I was with Amnesty International, of all things). And any even cursory review of the history of US government interaction with minority groups will reveal assault, murder, etc., from Fred Hampton to MLK, Anna Mae Aquash to Leonard Peltier, and many others.
COINTELPRO didn’t die with the 60s, you know. It just found ways to hide itself behind quasi-governemental organizations. Ask anyone involved with the Artists’ Network of Refuse and Resist, for instance, about the “unofficial” police websites that track their appearances from town to town.
Lots of people of color distrust this government. Conspiracy theories about CIA crack distribution and AIDS being a governemnt plot don’t even seem farfetched to folks who know that the government gave the Mafia free rein on the heroin trade in return for keeping the dockworker unions anti-Communist, or who lived through the Tuskegee experiments.
It’s hard to see this, I think, for some folks; but it’s not easy to trust the government when it seems that “being American” has meant something different to you than it does to them.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:20 am
Re: question
But Jonathan, I am basing it on facts.
I have PERSONALLY been on the receiving end of government crap based on my political activities with the American Indian Movement and various other groups, from surveillance to break-ins to intimidations and mail-opening (the last when I was with Amnesty International, of all things). And any even cursory review of the history of US government interaction with minority groups will reveal assault, murder, etc., from Fred Hampton to MLK, Anna Mae Aquash to Leonard Peltier, and many others.
COINTELPRO didn’t die with the 60s, you know. It just found ways to hide itself behind quasi-governemental organizations. Ask anyone involved with the Artists’ Network of Refuse and Resist, for instance, about the “unofficial” police websites that track their appearances from town to town.
Lots of people of color distrust this government. Conspiracy theories about CIA crack distribution and AIDS being a governemnt plot don’t even seem farfetched to folks who know that the government gave the Mafia free rein on the heroin trade in return for keeping the dockworker unions anti-Communist, or who lived through the Tuskegee experiments.
It’s hard to see this, I think, for some folks; but it’s not easy to trust the government when it seems that “being American” has meant something different to you than it does to them.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Re: question
Every day, the New York times lists the names of the recently killed in Iraq. Every person is accorded the exact same treatment. It’s not like the caucasions have their names in bold and the “browns” are in smaller font!
Believe me, I’m not arguing that there doesn’t still exist far too much prejudice in our society. There does. I’m just saying (and maybe I’m very naive) that when Americans hear on the evening news that “two soliders were killed today in Iraq” they are saddened – regardless of whether the soldier is from Compton or Simi Valley.
I also recognize that as a white male I may have a skewed perspective. All I’m saying is that we should base series accusations like a statement that our government or society is biased against certain subsets of itself upon facts and empirical examples, not generalities.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Re: question
Every day, the New York times lists the names of the recently killed in Iraq. Every person is accorded the exact same treatment. It’s not like the caucasions have their names in bold and the “browns” are in smaller font!
Believe me, I’m not arguing that there doesn’t still exist far too much prejudice in our society. There does. I’m just saying (and maybe I’m very naive) that when Americans hear on the evening news that “two soliders were killed today in Iraq” they are saddened – regardless of whether the soldier is from Compton or Simi Valley.
I also recognize that as a white male I may have a skewed perspective. All I’m saying is that we should base series accusations like a statement that our government or society is biased against certain subsets of itself upon facts and empirical examples, not generalities.
May 14th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Re: question
Every day, the New York times lists the names of the recently killed in Iraq. Every person is accorded the exact same treatment. It’s not like the caucasions have their names in bold and the “browns” are in smaller font!
Believe me, I’m not arguing that there doesn’t still exist far too much prejudice in our society. There does. I’m just saying (and maybe I’m very naive) that when Americans hear on the evening news that “two soliders were killed today in Iraq” they are saddened – regardless of whether the soldier is from Compton or Simi Valley.
I also recognize that as a white male I may have a skewed perspective. All I’m saying is that we should base series accusations like a statement that our government or society is biased against certain subsets of itself upon facts and empirical examples, not generalities.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:31 am
Re: question
Not to mention, think about the whole Jessica Lynch thing… I dunno.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:31 am
Re: question
Not to mention, think about the whole Jessica Lynch thing… I dunno.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:31 am
Re: question
Not to mention, think about the whole Jessica Lynch thing… I dunno.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:20 am
Re: question
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
It’s a good question.
Truth is, I suspect we do…it’s exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. But I’d need to look it up, so I won’t stipulate it.
At the heart of it though — when you say “we”, who do you assume “we” are? A lot of Americans of color don’t necessarily assume that the American government feels that much differently about them than they do about the Iraqis or Afghans they’ve killed. and there’s history to back it up.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:20 am
Re: question
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
It’s a good question.
Truth is, I suspect we do…it’s exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. But I’d need to look it up, so I won’t stipulate it.
At the heart of it though — when you say “we”, who do you assume “we” are? A lot of Americans of color don’t necessarily assume that the American government feels that much differently about them than they do about the Iraqis or Afghans they’ve killed. and there’s history to back it up.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:20 am
Re: question
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
It’s a good question.
Truth is, I suspect we do…it’s exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. But I’d need to look it up, so I won’t stipulate it.
At the heart of it though — when you say “we”, who do you assume “we” are? A lot of Americans of color don’t necessarily assume that the American government feels that much differently about them than they do about the Iraqis or Afghans they’ve killed. and there’s history to back it up.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:14 am
YES!!!!
No biggie on the line credit — glad to know that someone else knows the piece. I cover it at features from time to time. It’s in the “American Diaspora” anthology.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:14 am
YES!!!!
No biggie on the line credit — glad to know that someone else knows the piece. I cover it at features from time to time. It’s in the “American Diaspora” anthology.
May 14th, 2004 at 8:14 am
YES!!!!
No biggie on the line credit — glad to know that someone else knows the piece. I cover it at features from time to time. It’s in the “American Diaspora” anthology.
May 14th, 2004 at 6:40 am
question
A question:
Isn’t it natural for a country to care more about it’s own than others? I mean, anyone would care more if their brother were killed than if a stranger were killed in the same way. Someone from your home town getting killed would probably hit home a bit more than someone from Alaska. Someone from the US getting beheaded would get more attention than someone from saudi arabia getting beheaded. And someone from who looks, acts and dresses and talks like you (Mr. Berg, from suburban Philadelphia, who any of us could have gone to high school with together, for example) is going to hit home and be more newsworthy than some random person in the Sudan getting killed not because the person’s death in the Sudan is less worthy of horror but because one person is from Philadelphia and the other from a village we never heard of?
Of course, that would NOT explain us paying less attention to young black men getting killed in Compton than we do to others…
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
May 14th, 2004 at 6:40 am
question
A question:
Isn’t it natural for a country to care more about it’s own than others? I mean, anyone would care more if their brother were killed than if a stranger were killed in the same way. Someone from your home town getting killed would probably hit home a bit more than someone from Alaska. Someone from the US getting beheaded would get more attention than someone from saudi arabia getting beheaded. And someone from who looks, acts and dresses and talks like you (Mr. Berg, from suburban Philadelphia, who any of us could have gone to high school with together, for example) is going to hit home and be more newsworthy than some random person in the Sudan getting killed not because the person’s death in the Sudan is less worthy of horror but because one person is from Philadelphia and the other from a village we never heard of?
Of course, that would NOT explain us paying less attention to young black men getting killed in Compton than we do to others…
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
May 14th, 2004 at 6:40 am
question
A question:
Isn’t it natural for a country to care more about it’s own than others? I mean, anyone would care more if their brother were killed than if a stranger were killed in the same way. Someone from your home town getting killed would probably hit home a bit more than someone from Alaska. Someone from the US getting beheaded would get more attention than someone from saudi arabia getting beheaded. And someone from who looks, acts and dresses and talks like you (Mr. Berg, from suburban Philadelphia, who any of us could have gone to high school with together, for example) is going to hit home and be more newsworthy than some random person in the Sudan getting killed not because the person’s death in the Sudan is less worthy of horror but because one person is from Philadelphia and the other from a village we never heard of?
Of course, that would NOT explain us paying less attention to young black men getting killed in Compton than we do to others…
But I don’t think we give less attention to “minority” or “brown” soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq than we do white soldiers. Do we? We need to compare apples and apples.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:05 pm
It’s Elena Georgiou. The poem is “A Day in the Life of the Ethnically Determinate.” Thanks for forcing me to credit the line – bad of me not to do so on my own.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:05 pm
It’s Elena Georgiou. The poem is “A Day in the Life of the Ethnically Determinate.” Thanks for forcing me to credit the line – bad of me not to do so on my own.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:05 pm
It’s Elena Georgiou. The poem is “A Day in the Life of the Ethnically Determinate.” Thanks for forcing me to credit the line – bad of me not to do so on my own.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:03 pm
Therre’s a dynamite poem out there about this — can’t recall who wrote it, but it ends with lines like that: “are you the colonizer or the colonized, she asked./what do you think, I said./you could be either.” Have to dig that up.
This is a huge and complex subject, of course.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:03 pm
Therre’s a dynamite poem out there about this — can’t recall who wrote it, but it ends with lines like that: “are you the colonizer or the colonized, she asked./what do you think, I said./you could be either.” Have to dig that up.
This is a huge and complex subject, of course.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:03 pm
Therre’s a dynamite poem out there about this — can’t recall who wrote it, but it ends with lines like that: “are you the colonizer or the colonized, she asked./what do you think, I said./you could be either.” Have to dig that up.
This is a huge and complex subject, of course.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:00 pm
I’m referring to non-white people of any nationality.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:00 pm
I’m referring to non-white people of any nationality.
May 13th, 2004 at 8:00 pm
I’m referring to non-white people of any nationality.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:29 pm
well…. I think that the beheading of an American (whether white or not)will take precedence over pictures of Arabs with underwear over their heads. However, if the Arabs were shown being beheaded, (and I cant speak for everyone), but I would be just as disturbed and wiping snot from my face.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:29 pm
well…. I think that the beheading of an American (whether white or not)will take precedence over pictures of Arabs with underwear over their heads. However, if the Arabs were shown being beheaded, (and I cant speak for everyone), but I would be just as disturbed and wiping snot from my face.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:29 pm
well…. I think that the beheading of an American (whether white or not)will take precedence over pictures of Arabs with underwear over their heads. However, if the Arabs were shown being beheaded, (and I cant speak for everyone), but I would be just as disturbed and wiping snot from my face.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:25 pm
Of course there’s difference between the way the deaths of white people and “non-white” people are perceived. I could list lots of examples of this, but that’s not as interesting to me as this:
By saying “nonwhite” or “brown-skinned’ it gets a little muddy. My mom is very brown-skinned, and is often mistaken for a minority (Mexican-American, African-American, to name a couple) but she’s part of the white middle class in this country, even though she’s Jewish, which in many other countries in the world, as well as in part of this country, means she is regarded as an inferior “race.” So it all depends on who’s looking at you and where you’re standing, whether you’re the colonizer or the colonized. And it may change, within a day, a month, a lifetime.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:25 pm
Of course there’s difference between the way the deaths of white people and “non-white” people are perceived. I could list lots of examples of this, but that’s not as interesting to me as this:
By saying “nonwhite” or “brown-skinned’ it gets a little muddy. My mom is very brown-skinned, and is often mistaken for a minority (Mexican-American, African-American, to name a couple) but she’s part of the white middle class in this country, even though she’s Jewish, which in many other countries in the world, as well as in part of this country, means she is regarded as an inferior “race.” So it all depends on who’s looking at you and where you’re standing, whether you’re the colonizer or the colonized. And it may change, within a day, a month, a lifetime.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:25 pm
Of course there’s difference between the way the deaths of white people and “non-white” people are perceived. I could list lots of examples of this, but that’s not as interesting to me as this:
By saying “nonwhite” or “brown-skinned’ it gets a little muddy. My mom is very brown-skinned, and is often mistaken for a minority (Mexican-American, African-American, to name a couple) but she’s part of the white middle class in this country, even though she’s Jewish, which in many other countries in the world, as well as in part of this country, means she is regarded as an inferior “race.” So it all depends on who’s looking at you and where you’re standing, whether you’re the colonizer or the colonized. And it may change, within a day, a month, a lifetime.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:12 pm
When you say “brown skinned people” are you referring to Arabs or ethnic Americans?
May 13th, 2004 at 4:12 pm
When you say “brown skinned people” are you referring to Arabs or ethnic Americans?
May 13th, 2004 at 4:12 pm
When you say “brown skinned people” are you referring to Arabs or ethnic Americans?